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Gary Atherton, general manager, Devoe Collision C...
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Reader's Choice – Used Parts: Structurally Proper Repair?
"Is putting on a used part (e.g. quarter panel) considered a structurally proper repair when only the outer skin needs to be replaced?"
— Gary Atherton, general manager, Devoe Collision Center, Naples, Fla.
By Bob Winfrey
4/1/2008
Question answered by: Bob Winfrey
If you’ve been in the auto body repair business for more than six months, you’ve undoubtedly been asked to install a used structural component of some kind. I’ve been doing this for so long that I’m sure I’ve seen hundreds, maybe thousands, of LKQ, used and recycled parts on estimates.
The first thing you should note is that these parts are coming off vehicles that suffered enough damage to be taken off the road. That statement in itself should be enough to squash any argument from a manager or insurance representative about using them, but no, it’s all about saving money.
The structures of today’s modern vehicles are designed to absorb the energy from a serious crash. I’ve seen cars that were hit hard enough in the front to push the cowl back and buckle the roof and the quarter panels. So, when repairing cars like those or any others, the integrity of their structure should not be compromised.
If It Doesn’t Fit...
Have you ever run into the mysterious non-fitting used quarter panel? You put your wreck on the frame machine and pull and measure to get your panels fitting reasonably well. You unclamp it, put it back in your bay and remove the beaten quarter panel. Your part arrives and, lo and behold, the salvage yard was generous and sectioned the rear quarter down the middle of the trunk floor and in the middle of the rocker panel! Then, to make sure you have plenty of fun, it sent a nice chunk of roof with it, too! I can honestly say this is were the work begins. After your heart stops racing and you regain the color back in your face, you ask yourself, “How am I going to tackle this monstrosity?”
You locate the estimate to make sure you aren’t seeing things. Lo and behold, the insurance company gave you a whole two hours to trim that half a car they sent to an outer panel you can use! I’ve been in those shoes many times and I’ve never been able to trim that panel down to a usable section in less than half a day. Even if you get the adjuster or shop estimator to give you four hours, you might as well write that off as a loss. Look at it logically: You first have to remove whatever components are in your way (seat belts, taillights, energy absorbers, moldings, trim, etc.) Then, you have to locate all the attaching welds (under the caulking, paint and undercoating), drill all the spot welds and mark and cut your sections, factory seams or other things (roof, rocker, trunk gutter and rear body panel). Finally, you have to remove the piece of tin from the structure without damaging it. Or, if you’re unluckier still, the insurer wants you to section the floor and the two wheelhouses.
The insurer even got the time for this menagerie from “the database.” If you have access to “the database,” you’ll find that it pays less than a new panel to install this salvage yard one-quarter car. Say what? All this extra work for less than a new panel? Was it a fly-by estimate? Or did the adjuster stop his car and take a picture? After 30 years in this business, I know the P-pages won’t even help much in a situation like this. I have complained, quoted the P-pages, showed them the time for a new panel, threatened to quit and even loaded up my tools once or twice. And I still didn’t get what time I had in it.
Adjusters tell me all the time that other shops do it. Well, that doesn’t mean anything to me because they’re at my facility, not Frankie’s Body Shop and Barbeque.
I opened my own shop in the 1990s and was contemplating this very dilemma one day when it dawned on me. (You’re all going to relate to this well.) The last adjuster who asked me to install a used quarter panel got this message loud and clear. The inner structure is two to four times thicker than the panel you’re trying to remove, undamaged. I told Mr. Adjuster that removing the outer panel is like trying to take the top off a soda can without damaging the sides. It’s technically impossible. I asked for an additional half of the quarter replacement time, i.e. 16.0 hours replacement time and 8.0 hours to remove salvage section and trim; all the R & I time for components left on the used part; time to remove all the paint and prime the bare metal with epoxy; and a return visit to see how much repair time was necessary to smooth out all the hammer marks from chiseling the part off (mud time). His response was, “Geez, it would be cheaper for me to put a new panel on.” You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. That wipes out all the glee over the cost savings, and no productivity is lost. Remember this lesson (times two!) when you’re asked to clip a car.
Structurally Safe?
Is installing used parts a factory-approved repair method? Not by any manufacturer I’ve read bulletins on. The use of LKQ and aftermarket parts will void your factory warranty period, no questions asked.
Are used parts structurally safe, you ask? That depends on how much LKQ panel you install and where you cut it. Is it the same as a factory installed new part? Well, did you heat it to remove it? Beat the edges off with an air chisel? Grind once to remove paint to weld? Grind again to remove excess weld? All these factors weaken the panel and make the section weaker than the factory installed quarter panel – radiator supports, aprons, front clips, rear clips and especially unisides. The euphoria you experience due to the cost savings goes away quickly when you assume responsibility for a repair that’s possibly unsafe. Ask yourself, “Would I let my family ride in this vehicle for the next few years?” If you even think maybe, then it’s not safe enough.
My feeling is that installing a used part on a vehicle makes that vehicle not as structurally sound as intended by the manufacturer. When you annihilate the edges by removing the piece, slip with the chisel and chunk a corner off between welds or lose the end of a part with the long run of a chisel blade, you’re weakening the part. Fill the missing pieces with weld and filler and it isn’t going to be as strong, period. Adjusters tell me all the time that other shops do it. Well, that doesn’t mean anything to me because they’re at my facility, not Frankie’s Body Shop and Barbeque.
I’ve yet to see any crash data on used clips, side hits, unisides and quarter sections. I-CAR and Tech Core recommend and supposedly test these types of repairs, but they don’t seem to be very public with their data. All the wreck replacement front and rear clips I’ve seen that were later crashed in the sides or rear either tore in half or didn’t leave the occupants in very likely condition of living through the accident.
Ask yourself, “Would I let my family ride in this vehicle for the next few years?” If you even think maybe, then it’s not safe enough.
I just want everyone to understand that the repair shop and ultimately the technician performing the repairs are liable for any and all death and injury resulting from these types of repairs. Most garagekeeper’s policies won’t cover direct negligence or ignorance. I can also assure you that the insurance company recommending this repair or any repair for that matter won’t be on your side in court. They don’t fix cars, they just pay claims!
Writer Bob Winfrey is owner of All Precision Collision Repair in Marshville, N.C.
If 5 (rating) would be considerd top flight artical, Bob gets it all. Saving money is something we are all intrested in. When we have a new furnace installed in our home, we want it at the best possible price not giving up QUALITY. The word "CHEAP" & the word "INEXPENSIVE" both have obvious different meanings. Sectioning of used(LKQ)sheetmetal & structual parts in my opinion is a big BOZO NO NO. No good can come from it. Will the insurnce company indemnify us from law suits in the event they arrise? I don't think so. It's just a cheap way of repair. It will drag down a good repairers reputation. If we actually let the consumer watch what we would do to their car, they would be horrified. Show me an I-CAR report that states this is a sound repair.Sometimes I think they have a little birdy wispering in their ear. We have options. P-pages are just a guide. Sell your product. Show how it can be done at an inexpensive cost & not comprimise quality. We should stop selling ourselves short. Dan in Cincinnati.
by: dduck123 5/8/2008
I agree it’s no picnic to replace a used ¼ panel but aside from the financial aspects let’s not get carried away with the negative rhetoric. To start with, if you deal with a quality salvage yard they will cut the panel according to a “cut sheet” that you submit. Obviously it won’t come trimmed but if you want it cut through the sail panel and a designated part of the rocker they should do that. A “best in class” salvage yard will not sell a ¼ panel that may have secondary damage from a hard hit. Why would you have to sand off ALL the paint on a used part if the paint is original and in sound condition? Do you sand all the paint off a panel that you are repairing on the car? Of course not, you would refinish over the OEM paint. If the paint is bad for some reason, the salvage yard is responsible for a damage credit. Many of the negatives you stated come from poor or sloppy skills. You should never “grind” paint off the host panel to find welds with an aggressive grinding disk that will thin the panel. You sho
by: Shawn Collins 8/12/2008
You should never “grind” paint off the host panel to find welds with an aggressive grinding disk that will thin the panel. You should use a wire wheel like a crud thug or a fiber disk that does not thin the metal. You also mentioned grinding the welds when completed. This can be done with a grinding disk but you should stop grinding when the nugget is flat enough to avoid grinding on the surrounding area. Then finish it with the wire or fiber wheel. If you over-grind a new OEM panel it will cause the same damage as over-grinding a used ¼ panel so that point is moot. Damage that is caused with carelessness isn’t the fault of the insurance company or the salvage yard. I’ve seen techs miss-cut a brand new OEM ¼ or butcher the flange separating the tail lamp pocket. Does this make the OEM ¼ a bad repair? No, it means you need to use more finesse. You should be careful not to damage the flange with a chisel and use a good drill with a depth of cut adjustment where needed. I know there are some tricky operations li
by: Shawn Collins 8/13/2008
I know there are some tricky operations like adhesives around the fuel door pocket or wheel lip but you should add those items to the estimate. Many of the complaints you mentioned could be solved by the p pages and negotiations. As far as safety, most ¼ panels are considered a cosmetic panel not structural. You say that the manufacturers don’t recommend used parts and they void the warranty. I wonder if everything you do in your shop is in compliance with what the manufacturer states. Do you use remanufactured wheels? Most OEM’s don’t recommend that. Do you follow all sectioning recommendations for every panel or rail you replace or section? Honda has no recommendations for sectioning floor pans or front rails. Do you replace ALL Honda floor pans and rails complete? The OEM’s say to disconnect the SIR systems before welding on the vehicle, do you? If the OEM’s don’t have sectioning recommendations for unisides do you replace the entire uniside everytime? And now be honest, do you ONLY use adhesive bonding on
by: Shawn Collins 8/13/2008
do you ONLY use adhesive bonding on panels where the OEM’s specifically recommend it? I visit hundreds of shops a year and every one of them uses adhesive bonding on roof panels and wheel lips against manufacturer’s recommendations. So lets be honest, because you don’t like using used ¼ panels you are using the excuse of manufacturers recommendations against that repair but not for many other operations you do all the time. If you do follow every single mandate the OEM’s state congratulations you’re the only shop in the country that does. I’m sure you are wondering, I was an ASE Certified Master Technician for 26 years, an I-CAR instructor for 15 years, a Skills USA judge for 10 years and inspect in-process repairs for one of my jobs. I do not work for an insurance company. You have some valid points but the question was weather or not it was a structurally proper repair. With all due respect your answer should have been “well, I don’t like to do it and don’t always get paid correctly, but if done correctly,
by: Shawn Collins 8/13/2008